Debreceni Egyetem Angol-Amerikai Intézet

University of Debrecen

Institution of English and American Studies

Research Paper

Being a lawyer in Hungary and in the USA

Written by

Talabér János

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Declaration of copyrights

Except as noted, the information below applies to

dr.

Talabér János (ID:109714DA),

such as this

essay, which is defined as his own product of mind. All texts, images, logos and information

contained in this essay is the intellectual property of the writer, unless otherwise registered and are

protected under the U.S. Copyright Act 17 U.S.C. 101-810 (provided it is also published in the USA

or on the Internet) as well as under the Hungarian Civil Code (Act. 1959. évi IV. törvény/91.§-

138.§) (within the borders of Republic of Hungary).

Copyright gives the owner exclusive right to reproduce, distribute, perform, display, or license a

given work. The writer declares that he has not violated the copyrights of other authors and

publishers, he avoided plagiarism and that all the things except for notes are the production of his

intellectuality.

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Introduction ­ personal motivations

Since our having been in contact with church law and medical law for long, it was definitely

obvious that we would not have chosen other topics to deal with. However, since there is a whole

library of books and Internet sites dealing with the British and American legal systems as unique,

non-conform ones, we set off to point at the basic differences compared to other laws while we

would like to note some interesting canonical points as well. It is obvious, however, that we cannot

expect the perfection of this short essay, therefore we are rather eager to present only some

interesting points and views.

I. Basic concepts ­ Roman Law

Just before we get to the American legal system while concentrating on practical things, we cannot

apart from the fact that the American legal system had been built upon the British system for

hundreds of years. Therefore, first we would intend to draw the basic concepts of British laws, then

we would point at the differences between British and overseas laws. Moreover, we would pick on

some interesting facts of canonical law, and finally we would attempt to get to the conclusion where

it would be better to exercise legal career ­ not only from a financial point of view.

In many legal systems, the basic concept of a written regulating document (later called written law)

hanged upon the Roman law ­ as the source of all legal documents. However, this law is not as

implemented in British legislation as it is in many other systems. Legal experts, therefore, divide

the legal sources into two major fountains: Roman and Anglo-Saxon roots. Both share similarities

and differences. Moreover, before the civil legislation, two major roots had been known as basic

fountains: Roman and Canonical.1

Roman law

refers not only to the legal system of ancient Rome, but also to the law that was applied

throughout most of Western Europe until the end of the 18th century. Still many of the concepts are

preserved and partially applied. This is especially true in the field of private law. The influence of

Roman law is shown by the wealth of legal terminology, retained by all legal systems. Before the

Twelve Tables (754­201 BC)2, private law consisted of the old Roman civil law (

ius civile

) being

applied to Roman citizens only. After the Tweleve Tables, there were many laws issued by the

Roman leaders such as Lex Hortensia, Lex Aquilla, etc. The Roman written form of legislation

1 See. Corpus Iuris Canonici and Corpus Iuris Civilis (Twelve Table)

2 The first written document of legal regulations having general force and ruling power over citizens

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reached its peak in the post-classical period, somewhere in the middle of the 3rd Century BC. This is

the date since which we have been able to take Roman law as our source (

Fontes essendi

) into

account.3

Corpus Iuris Canonici

(′Body of Canon Law′) is the collection of sources of church law. It was

replaced by the Codex Iurius Canonici ("Code of Canon Law") later, which was promulgated in

1917. The

CIC

was revised in 1983 for the Latin rite of the Catholic Church and in 1990 for the

Eastern rites. However, the present CIC is not so important for us now, since civil legislation and

church legislation have been separated since the early 19th century. Before that period, however, the

legislation of kings and emperors did really rely on canonical actions. We can observe canon law as

the roots of legal documents from the middle of the 13th century. 4

Precedent law

is the essence that makes law very Anglo-Saxon. This is the first distinguishing step

between Continental legal systems and British (American) one. The precedent on an issue is the

collective body of judicially announced principles that a court should consider when interpreting the

law. When a precedent establishes an important legal principle, or represents new or changed law on

a particular issue, that precedent is often known as a key or landmark decision. 5

3 ERDÖ PÉTER,

Az egyházjog forrásai

,SZIT,Budapest 1998, 1-29.

4 See. Pope Gregory IX, Ad expediandos, 9th September 1253.

5 GÖNCI-HORVÁTH-STIPTA-RÉVÉSZ-ZLINSZKY (eds),

Egyetemes jogtörténet

, Nemzeti Tankönyvkiadó,

Bp,1997, 258-314.

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II. Difference in constitution

The roots and major differences that we discussed above were all true for both American and

British legal systems, compared to Continental law. As far as the constitution of Britain and

America are concerned, we have got to point at major divergences. Astonishingly, in British legal

system there is not a written constitution covering all fields of human life. In fact, there are a lot of

laws and acts dealing with different basic rights and obligations, however, there is not a bunch of

laws put down in one book. The concept that lies behind is that the government (including the

house of lords and commons) has the right to make out acts or laws to interact in any affairs of life.

Consequently, there are a lot of written decisions that form the basis of the cases. As there is a high

acceptance and application of precedent decisions, it is not a problem to decide upon formal cases.

This is implemented in the other Anglo-Saxon invention, the common law.

Unlike in Britain, there is an old written constitution in the United States. Moreover, the

constitution seems to be kept as a sacred document, learned and cited by school kids all around the

whole country. This is something, a sacred relic, that US citizens are really proud of.

The Constitution of the USA (main times written with a capital initial letter)

is the supreme law of

the United States. It is the foundation and source of the legal authority highlighting the existence

and ruling powers of the United States and the Federal Government of the United States. It provides

the framework for the organization of the United States Government. The document defines the

three main branches of the government: The legislative branch (there is the bicameral Congress),

the executive branch (President), and a judicial branch (led by the Supreme Court). It is not only

providing for the organization of these branches, but the Constitution also outlines which powers

each branch may exercise. In addition, it also reserves numerous rights for the individual states,

hence establishing the United States′ federal system of government. It is the shortest and oldest

written constitution of a major sovereign state.6

6 What makes the Constitution of US so popular? First, it is short so it is much easier to recite. Second, perhaps

because it is the oldest written document underlying American feelings (you know the term "old" is relative when

we discuss the USA), being a basement upon which American Dream is built.

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III. Difference in division (branches) of powers

Common law

is law created and refined by judges: a decision in the case currently pending depends

on decisions in previous cases and affects the law to be applied in future cases. When there is no

authoritative statement of the law, the judge has the authority and duty to make law by creating

precedent. Legal amendments, acts, measures, proposals and written form of rights are similarly

created in the British legal system. Therefore, the division of powers is an apparent phenomenon. It

means that we can certainly talk about

legislative power

,

executive power

and

juridical power.

In

the British case, however, the acting bodies have been different throughout the history. I would go

into deeper details here, however, I should in that case explain the basic concepts of law and legal

philosophy, which I think is impossible now. As for the division of powers, the basic difference is

that in Hungary (and in most European countries) general law is only created by the legislative

bodies, whereas in the British system a general law could come to forth by a decision of a court. It

means that a decision in a certain case might act binding in general matters. To clarify this, I would

show an example. In Hungary the criminal code is applied for the certain case, and

precedent law

does not really exist. For instance, two different thieves could get two different sentences regardless

of the similarity of the cases. It is because there are different and wide possibilities of the judges to

apply the code, and because of the code having wide range (range of imprisonment periods) of

possibilities. Moreover, the law is applied for the individual case, therefore there are such

ambiguities in decision making. And the sentence or decision made by the judge (or judges) are

binding only for the certain given case. This could not happen in England or either in the States. A

decision made by the judge (or jury) is not only binding for the given case but it also has general

binding effects on the future similarities. Therefore, the judges could go back on the previous

judgments and those could serve as precedents. The new judgment - if any case it is provenly

different from its ancestors- could stand as a new precedent. A judge (or judges, jury) could have

the right to observe many previous cases upon which they can come out with the new sentence. As a

result,

juridical power

could create general law as well, therefore it also stands as legislative power

in certain occasions. (see. mandatory precedent and persuasive precedent)

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IV. Differences in participants of legal actions

Lawyers

are people educated in aspects of law who may represent clients at court; often referred to

as an

attorney

or an

advocate

, they can fulfill a number of roles depending on the circumstances. As

advocates, lawyers can represent one of the parties in criminal and civil trials by presenting

evidence and arguing in court to support their client. For almost every area of society there is a

specialist branch of the legal system; for example: Constitutional Law, Criminal Law, International

law, Adoption, and Identification Theft.

Attorneys

, however, are rather the lawyers in the States. They are professional representatives of

their commissioners in front of legal forums. They show much more of resemblance to the

Hungarian

"ügyvéd"

In the States, therefore, the picture is much easier: lawyer (=

jogász

) is a

general term for a person who graduated from the university of law, however, it does not mean that

she or he has the practice and rights to act as an advocate. To become an

attorney (advocate),

the

fresh graduate has to learn at least two more years in order to gain It is like in Hungary, where the

newly graduated lawyer has to learn three extra years to become an attorney (ügyvéd).

In the UK, however, there are

barristers and solicitors.

A solicitor, on the other hand, is a lawyer who, after having served under the supervision of a

practicing solicitor for two years, and having satisfied other demands of the Law Society, including

educational requirements, is admitted to practice by the Master of the Rolls. Solicitors have limited

rights to practice before the courts. These rights of access to the courts have been expanded of late

however, generally, a solicitor is considered an office lawyer whereas the barrister, who provides

opinions to solicitors on difficult points of law, also appears in court. 7

Summing up the differences I have mentioned (certainly there are more than plenty), we have to

conclude that the Hungarian term "jogász" correlates with "lawyer", whereas for "ügyvéd" we can

use either attorney, barrister or solicitor. It is due to the fact that in Hungary "ügyvéd" is not sub-

specified like someone representing in front of a court or not. It is true, however, that the Hungarian

attorneys are also specializing in different cases like criminal, civil, health care, etc.

7 See. J. ERWITT,

America At Home: A Close-up Look At How We Live

, RPBP, New York, 2008.

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V. Difference in education

Extremely surprisingly, however, the education of lawyers is outstandingly different in the countries

of the world. The Anglo-Saxon concepts hang upon formal historical education and certain

participation in different boards, bars and benches (US). It is possible to gain a basic BA (BL)

degree in law after a three year course; after this, the study period should be prolonged with two

extra years (in some places of the US only one) to reach the university level (MA, Magister). This is

the level upon which the person could start heading for being a solicitor or a barrister (he should

become a member of some of the bars or inns, in the USA "bench"). Post-graduating studies and

gaining PhD (doctorate in Law) is surely possible, however, not inevitable for opening an office or

starting a carrier. On the contrary, a doctorate in law is essential for academic teaching or being a

senior consultant. After one getting the first degree in law (BL), in the US further education may be

continued with the Master′s degree in law (LLM)8 which is the professional JD degree meant for

those who wish to practice law (or work within the legal field) in the US. Therefore, JD programs

primarily focus on American law. The LLM degree is generally meant for already-qualified lawyers

who wish to undertake further study in a particular area of the field of law. Please note that to

practice law in the US, you must first pass the bar exam and have legal right to work in the US. It is

very notable here that concerning many fields of education in the US (including teacher′s trainings

as well), getting you degree is just one thing, however, in order to start a career one needs the

authorization (licensure) to start work.

The Hungarian legal education merely depends on custom law. 9 Therefore, it is a privileged

systems. The lawyers in Hungary study for five years at a university, and they obtain a

university

doctorate

at the time of graduation. This doctorate is not equivalent to PhD level, it is an

honored-

like doctorate.

If they want to work as attorneys they need to learn for three extra years and pass a

special qualifying exam. The following chart should intend to show the differences.

8 Degrees awarded at the doctoral level are the Doctor of Juridical Science (SJD or JSD) and the Doctor of Comparative

Law Studies (DCL). These are the most advanced degrees in law and generally intended for those who would intend

to teach at universities. Most law schools also offer the option of joint degrees in various disciplines. The most

common degrees are a JD/MBA or a JD/MA or JD/MSc in fields such as economics, international relations, public

policy or political science.

9 Ius conquassatum, law of habits, customs law (see. Roman law)

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USA

Levels achieved

HUNGARY

Levels achieved

0-3 years of studies

Bachelor of Law degree

0-3 NONE

NONE

(BL) ready to apply for

qualifying exams

+ 2 years

Master of Law in order to 0-5 Degree in Law (Univ. MLL

equivalent

with

specify in one field

jurist) after 5 years of honored doctorate:

(MLL)

academic education (NOT (doctor univ. jur.)

READY to start the career

ready to start a career)

+ 3 years

PhD if one would intend to + 3 years

PhD or Licensure to start a

teach at the university

two possibilities:

career

(NOT necessary)

A. one can run for

PhD if he intends

to teach

B. one can run for the

qualifying exam if

he wants to start a

career

(NECESSARY if one wants

a career as professor or

attorney)

Table 1. Secular Law education in the US and Hungary

Table 2. Canonical Law education (universal, both in the USA and Hungary)10

Canon law (USA, Hungary)

Levels achieved

+2 University degree in Canon Law

MA equivalent, one is declared as a lawyer. Here

one cannot start a legal career as a church lawyer

yet.

+ 1 year Licensure/Licentiate (LIC)

LIC (MPhil) equivalent, one can start a legal

career and in some countries he gets a honored

doctorate. It is the part of PhD education since it

closes with a doctorate exam, but it is still not on

PhD level.

+ 1 or 2 years PhD in Church Law

The highest degree in Church Law, one can either

teach or have a legal career in the church. This

closes with the defense of the doctoral essay

(usually a work of more than 200 printed pages).

Please note there is a

joint degree

possible here, so with an extra 2-3 years of learning Secular Law,

one can obtain both legal qualifications such as civil lawyer and church lawyer (

doctor utrisque
iuris).

10 Please note that the Canonical Law studies are always Postgraduate studies, so first you need a degree in Theology or

Secular Law, then you can start these studies

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The education of church is also different, however, it is rather standardized. As the church itself is

unique, the church education is similar in all countries of the world. However, since the bilateral

nature of church law, the education must be adjusted to the legal education of the exact country.

Therefore, church law (canon law) education is possible only at those universities where secular law

is also taught. In church law the students can obtain three different degrees (MA/Baccaluarate =

university degree, Licentiate = minor doctorate level degree, Doctorate = PhD level). All three

could be granted, however, in order to work as an advocate in front of church courts, the candidate

must possess at least the second level. Studying church law in Hungary has been possible since

1998 at Pazmany University. The course is ratified and authorized by the Hungarian State.

VI. Legal careers

Both the American and Hungarian systems have advantages and disadvantages. As for one being

respected, it seems to be a good thing getting a doctorate after the first graduation. However, in

many countries such as in the USA no one would care about it. Building up one′s own career, a BL

degree would easily do if you pass special qualifying examinations and join the bar or bench.

Therefore, making up a career one has to study the maximum of 5 years (sometimes fewer) and one

is ready to start. It is impossible in Hungary. Either being a doctor or not, starting an own career is

impossible after 5 years of studies, thus one must learn (and practice under the supervision of an

attorney) for extra 3 years and pass a very hard qualifying exam.

We have summed these things up in the chart below.

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Table 3. Legal careers (advantages and disadvantages)

USA legal career

GOOD

Hungarian legal career

GOOD

0-3 BL

- one must learn only 0-5 MLL (dhc)

- One will get an

+ 2 MLL

for 3 years and join + 3 Licensure or

honored doctor title

the bar or bench

- Layers are very

+ 3 PhD

and is ready to start + 3 PhD

respected

a carrier

- In a daily course,

- the salary11 of

there is no tuition

middle

lawyers

fee at the university

vary

between

§

- After starting a

90,000 (per ann.)

career the salary is

where a partner

high

above

lawyer

(company

Hungarian standard

lawyer)

might

(BUT compare:

make § 250,00 (per

On average a good lawyer

ann.)

would make up to § 80,000

- there

is

a

a year, which is the earnings

possibility to go on

of a middle-class lawyer in

with the studies

the USA)

BAD

BAD

- the education is not

- one starts his career

free, one starts his

late, imagine that at

life with the dept of

the age of 26 when

§ 50,000 or more

one can start own

- there is a very

career

(where

severe competition

comes the family

so one has to be

then?)

very good

- perhaps

the

competition is the

biggest in Hungary

than everywhere in

Europe

- unemployment hits

lawyers much, if

they possess only

the first degree

11 Source: http://www.michlaw.com/salary02charts.cfm#years (05.10/2009)

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VII. Summary

Let us not decide on which one we would choose. The writers of this short essay have a kind of

experience in both legal systems, including church law as well. What we have to note is that one is

supposed to work very hard to start a real career in both countries. Perhaps the situation seems to be

easier in the States, however, competition is a very tough phenomenon underlying the fact that

lawyers have to be very well prepared everywhere in the world.

Although we lacked the opportunity to draw up everything (it would have devoured a whole

book), our readers might have gotten a hint of view on legal differences. The key differences hang

upon education system and the nature of common law. However, the most important thing which all

legal system should keep in mind is

legal security.

We do think it is not abridged or abused in any

democratic states. Being a lawyer either in Hungary or in the United States, one must always keep

these things in mind: serve the good, the hope and wish for moral and better quality of life. Well,

you see, to keep this is the hardest thing ever, is it not?

Thank you for your attention.

Ca

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Bibliography

Books and articles

Corpus Iuris Canonici

and

Corpus

Iuris Civilis

(see.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Iuris_Canonici)

CURZON, L.B,

Dictionary of Law, Long

man, London, 2002.

ERDÖ P.,

Az egyházjog forrásai

, SZIT, Budapest 1998.

ERWITT,

America At Home: A Close-up Look At How We Live

, RPBP, New York, 2008.

GÖNCI-HORVÁTH-STIPTA-RÉVÉSZ-ZLINSZKY (eds.),

Egyetemes jogtörténet

, Nemzeti

Tankönyvkiadó, Budapest, 1997.

PARROT, D.,

Your Church and the Law

, CP, Norwich, 2008.

POPE GREGORY IX,

Ad expediandos,

9th September 1253. (fontes essendi)

TALABÉR J.,

Jogi Ismeretek 1. (jegyzet az OKJ képzésben résztvev szociális asszisztens
hallgatóknak),

SOTER-LINE, Budapest, 2003.

Web sites

1. http://www.michlaw.com/salary02charts.cfm#years (04.11/2009)

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Iuris_Canonici (05.02/2009)

3. http://www.w3education.org/education/legal.asp (05.08/2009)

4. http://www.lifeintheusa.com/government/legaleduc.htm (05.10/2009)

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